Joined: Wed Apr 17, 2002 9:48 am Posts: 1840 Location: Rothesay, NB
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_________________ The fricton circle for my 911 Porsche resembles more of an oblong... I'm either trailbraking or accelerating while trying to get it to turn!
_________________ The fricton circle for my 911 Porsche resembles more of an oblong... I'm either trailbraking or accelerating while trying to get it to turn!
_________________ The fricton circle for my 911 Porsche resembles more of an oblong... I'm either trailbraking or accelerating while trying to get it to turn!
Joined: Wed Apr 17, 2002 9:48 am Posts: 1840 Location: Rothesay, NB
Here is a video quickly shot this morning to give those that are coming from away a better idea of what the proposed course will be like for Sunday's Autoslalom event.
There is no speed limit required other than what our rules say There is no noise restrictions other than what our rules say
Note what has changed though is no fenced in area to secure your stuff. We will be parking in a public lot across the street and we cannot rope it off or hold the public back from using it. Non-street legal competitors will be kept on the Harbour Station property, but all trailers and support vehicles will be relegated down under the bridge between the Skate park and Long Wharf, sorry
This video has been listed as private so nobody can easily see my Hoonin this morning, so please don't forward this link to Facebook or the local constabulary please.
I did this in one take and got out of there, so I said Start/Finish at the first but that will be Start only. Also where I said I will be adding a slalom to the straight I didn't mean that I would be taking away from the straight but rather adding the slalom to the beginning or end to reign in excessive speed because one could easily go triple digits here We will probably throw some more switch backs in to make the course even longer ...and we only have to let the bus through the course at 2:40pm
Stacy
_________________ The fricton circle for my 911 Porsche resembles more of an oblong... I'm either trailbraking or accelerating while trying to get it to turn!
Of course this is just my opionion but I always find switchbacks ruin the flow of the course. Instead of trying to make the course longer, can we keep it quick and fun?
Most of SCCA's pro solo courses this year have been In the 40-50 second range...
For me seat time is pointless if a course sucks. Slow, tight courses just remove the ability to really link elements together and discover the fast lines. Hairpins are the #1 worst thing you can do with course design and should be avoided unless absolutely necessary (ie Digby). That's not to say direction changes are bad, but anything where you are nearing steering lock is probably a bad design element - offset slaloms can be another bad one. I don't like using it as an example since they were needed to make sure they didn't exceed 60km/h, but the start of last years SJ course is one of the worst examples I can think of. 3 insanely tight hairpins in a row that was nothing but steering wheel shuffling.
If lotsize/layout makes for tiny courses then the best thing to do is to set up for multiple laps/repeat elements/etc. Seems to work well at Sackville and Scotia Speed World, and Magic mountain has had similar designs as well. Harbour station is around the same square footage of sackville and I bet you could make a good 40-50 second course out of it.
As for the prosolo, if you watch the vids they have HUGE lots. They could easily double the coursetimes but they stick to very wide open courses with low cone counts.
I assume Stacy's reference to switchbacks was for the purpose of running multiple laps/repeat elements, not to choke down the course and make it slow/tight/boring.
_________________ 1997 Talon TSi AWD 2008 EVO X MR
Joined: Mon Aug 22, 2005 11:03 am Posts: 275 Location: Rothesay
Scott- I didn't follow the link nor do I design courses.
I have yet to be on a course in the maritimes that sucked in anyway. of course I have only been doing this for 10 years so YMMV. Last year at long wharf I was driving a stock 4 door saturn with snow tires. I was lock to lock just getting thru the parking lot
Tight courses are not the best for drag cars or for going really fast. however EVERY course HAS a straight, quick line thru it. It must, because there is a trophy for FTD (fastest time of day) The trick is to find it.
Go fast in the fast sections and slow in the slow sections.
If your looking for raw speed then you may find track days and time attack a good way to get that need filled. Autoslalom in my option IS about a lot of heavy steering, short bursts of acceleration and heavy braking. top speed should never be over 80km/h
Joined: Wed Apr 17, 2002 9:48 am Posts: 1840 Location: Rothesay, NB
Focusing on our upcoming event everybody will enjoy a nice smooth, flowing, exactly the right length and speed event Sunday
Stacy
_________________ The fricton circle for my 911 Porsche resembles more of an oblong... I'm either trailbraking or accelerating while trying to get it to turn!
Joined: Wed Apr 17, 2002 9:48 am Posts: 1840 Location: Rothesay, NB
And for today's shameless spin to keep this thread alive ...here is the typical reaction we have been getting to our 50th Anniversary Saab give-away Sunday:
Attachment:
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Exactly the feedback we want to see!
Stacy
_________________ The fricton circle for my 911 Porsche resembles more of an oblong... I'm either trailbraking or accelerating while trying to get it to turn!
_________________ The fricton circle for my 911 Porsche resembles more of an oblong... I'm either trailbraking or accelerating while trying to get it to turn!
Scott- I didn't follow the link nor do I design courses.
I have yet to be on a course in the maritimes that sucked in anyway. of course I have only been doing this for 10 years so YMMV. Last year at long wharf I was driving a stock 4 door saturn with snow tires. I was lock to lock just getting thru the parking lot
Sounds to me like you weren't looking ahead and planning for the next element in the parking lot if you were lock to lock that easily. I have been doing this for TWO years and have been on a number of courses that were horrible, so apparently my mileage does vary. Not trying to be a whiny, crying, negative nancy, but I'm certainly on Scott's side here regarding multiple hairpins and never-ending wheel shuffling.
Quote:
Tight courses are not the best for drag cars or for going really fast. however EVERY course HAS a straight, quick line thru it. It must, because there is a trophy for FTD (fastest time of day) The trick is to find it.
Yes every course might have a quick line through it (definitely not straight though), but a course can be designed so that it does flow even if you are driving a drag car.
Quote:
If your looking for raw speed then you may find track days and time attack a good way to get that need filled. Autoslalom in my option IS about a lot of heavy steering, short bursts of acceleration and heavy braking. top speed should never be over 80km/h
You're talking to people who already do track days, you're missing the point. Heavy steering is inherently part of autoslalom, but I find it shocking that someone who has done autocross for ten years(!!!!) would be blind to the difference between a good course and a bad one. I would go out on a limb and say the majority of competitors' favorite courses would be the fastest ones, and it would take away a LOT from autocross if we never broke 80km/h.
OH and just in case anyone think's I'm pointing fingers in regards to bad courses, I am certainly not implying anything. Every club has good and bad, but acknowledging the differences is key to not only getting new people interested (as bad courses herd them out of autocross), but also making sure others keep having fun and coming to events.
Great link BTW, Scott.
_________________ #20 Scion FR-S 6MT Powered by: Great North Performance, Morine's Towing Performance & Off Road, Jani-King Canada and Blue Buzzard Performance Parts.
2013+14+15 Atlantic Sports Car Club Overall Autocross Champion 2013+14+15 Atlantic Region Motor Sports Overall Autocross Champion 2017-18 BAC Overall Rallycross Champion
I think there was a bit of confusion when Stacy mentioned switchbacks, I should have known he meant looping back on the course not two 90 degree linked turns. my bad.
I'm sure the course will be great this year, especially without the restrictions We had last year.
Oddly (NOT!) it isn't available on the ASN Canada site despite the rules saying to find it there.
Also of note, new edition of the Solo Regs were published on April 17, with major changes to : Section 4.3 Helmets - revised Section 5.3 Seats and Seat Belts - revised Section 5.4 Competition Seats and Safety Harnesses - revised Section 5.5 Use - revised
Looks to me like they no longer permit any DOT harnesses other than OEM.
Joined: Sun Apr 28, 2002 1:12 am Posts: 1902 Location: Bedford, NS
Nothing wrong with the occasional oddball, kinky, no flow course. While not fun, you still need to figure out how to be fast on them, and they can often make you think a bit differently about where to focus on taking time out of it.
Joined: Wed Apr 17, 2002 9:48 am Posts: 1840 Location: Rothesay, NB
For our upcoming event we have now hit (40) registrants
NBSCC's goal is 50 for our 50th!
Stacy
_________________ The fricton circle for my 911 Porsche resembles more of an oblong... I'm either trailbraking or accelerating while trying to get it to turn!
Heavy steering is inherently part of autoslalom, but I find it shocking that someone who has done autocross for ten years(!!!!) would be blind to the difference between a good course and a bad one. I would go out on a limb and say the majority of competitors' favorite courses would be the fastest ones, and it would take away a LOT from autocross if we never broke 80km/h.
I've seen my share of bad courses. I've designed a few of them too. I just try to get better at designing courses. I have to say, my favorite courses are not the fastest ones. My favorite courses are the ones I do well at
Heavy steering is inherently part of autoslalom, but I find it shocking that someone who has done autocross for ten years(!!!!) would be blind to the difference between a good course and a bad one. I would go out on a limb and say the majority of competitors' favorite courses would be the fastest ones, and it would take away a LOT from autocross if we never broke 80km/h.
I've seen my share of bad courses. I've designed a few of them too. I just try to get better at designing courses. I have to say, my favorite courses are not the fastest ones. My favorite courses are the ones I do well at
I ve done a few myself. I tend to know after my runs if we did a good course or not. But if you dont like the course we have built, please come tell me why. Don't just go grumble to others. Unless you have complained before............. then i built that back in just for you. lol.
I dont think ill be able to make it Stacy. Sorry. We have a lot going on this summer, and we are selling our house. So unless someone wants to lock in buying the house right now................... (just 10 min from AMP!!!) Can even come with a rally cross neon......then Ill be working on it this weekend. Hope everything goes well, and the weather stays clear. I think this will be the first regional event I have missed in over 6 or 7 years. Ill be doing laps on the ride-on just to make up for it. lol
_________________ Watch out for porcupine exiting turn 9!!!!!!
Joined: Wed Apr 17, 2002 9:48 am Posts: 1840 Location: Rothesay, NB
Took me a minute to write this, so nothing against the last post'r (...because there has been multiple while I was writing) but enough of the course design stuff already! Start your own thread if you want to talk about it ...as it makes NBSCC look like we designed some crappy course that nobody liked last year and could hurt our entries this year for all the advertisement that links to this thread!
I've got moderator powers and I will take you out
Taking a page out of Andy's excellent post on another topic with full diclosure: For the record if everybody only knew how close we came to having our event cancelled in the middle of it last year and the only thing that saved it was by me (that's right, I'm taking ownership) making it tight at the beginning to give the illusion of slow speed to the guard when he sat his butt down at the start line with instructions to "shut us down if we exceeded 60km/hr". Could you just imagine the webboard discussion if we had to stop the event and redesign it? "He got more runs than me!" "I put my tires on to favour the prominent right hand turns, and I had to switch!" "I had to leave early because the event went late and missed my final run!" etc...
The course was smooth, flowing, 50-60sec in length easy to follow with one unrelated course design O/C, and minimal cone hits.
The event started on time, finished on time, and nobody stood on course shagging cones for 3hrs straight.
If there was problems they were addressed at the time. For instance when made aware that the second run group's paddock area was sand'ier than the 1st run groups a worker was assigned with a pair of gloves whose only job was to completely wipe off the tires of the vehicles pulling up to the start line.
If you went "slow in the slow parts and fast in the fast parts" then some probably touched 80km/h.
I drove my non-powered steering fat tire CRX and then my rack & pinion non-assisted 911 through it over and over ...and then for good measure I drove a crewcab truck though it at speed with no problem. Because of this I took myself out of the competition event due to any unfair advantage that this would cause. Because of that and not making three other events (due to other commitments like Joel) I did not meet the required number of events to trophy at the end of the year despite winning XP.
When others start stepping up to the plate like Ming, Ray, Dave, Joel, Dwight, Jason, etc... organizing and running in events I will listen to what you have to say, other than that shut up all ready...
Yours in Motorsports Stacy Chapman NBSCC Club President
_________________ The fricton circle for my 911 Porsche resembles more of an oblong... I'm either trailbraking or accelerating while trying to get it to turn!
_________________ The fricton circle for my 911 Porsche resembles more of an oblong... I'm either trailbraking or accelerating while trying to get it to turn!
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We will probably throw some more switch backs in to make the course even longer ...and we only have to let the bus through the course at 2:40pm
