Hey Guys and Gals,

I know a guy from the HRM who has a drone that he does some pretty sweet videos with. Was wondering if the drone is something we would allow on (above) course or around the perimeter. Would really like to see what kind of shots and angles he could get with it. He did a video with the Dal SAE car that was at our test and tune last year and he says rules permitting that he's very interested in coming out to one/some of our events. I told him I wanted to clear it with people first. Thoughts?

Here's a link to his YouTube channel:
https://www.youtube.com/user/TheAlmostKidWon

To use a drone at AMP the operator MUST have a commercial permit from Transport Canada and MUST have commercial insurance of a minimum $5,000,000. If the above is in place the operator MUST have written permission from AMP. Even if these conditions are met the drone is not permitted above the track surface. The person operating the drone at "your" test and tune was in total contravention of AMP and ARMS rules and the ARMS event you were at was taking place in contravention of ARMS policies and therefore without ARMS insurance coverage. The people who allowed this to happen shouldn't have, hopefully they won't allow it to happen again.

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Andy Hill

Should be clarified. This wasn't an ARMS event. It was just a guy filming the Dal car which happened to be running in the same lot that gets used for autoslalom. Although the Dal car has run arms events for their own testing i believe...

It's unfortunate that we won't get any cool aerial shots, but understandable. I wouldn't want a drone crashing into my passenger seat mid run!

Thanks for the reply Dave.

Also Greg thank you for also clarifying that the drone was NOT at the test and tune but had simply done some work with the SAE car at a completely separate time as they were using the parking lot for their own tests i do believe.

This is exactly why i posted the question because I am not aware of insurance rules or club rules that are in place for this sort of thing. However I am now and the clarification is appreciated.

That's a real shame. Soon local birds will be required to carry a flight license and personal insurance as well.

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1997 Talon TSi AWD
2008 EVO X MR

Hmm, interesting. What if we attached a gimbal'd gopro to a trained falcon and filmed our events that way. From what I understand bird law is quite a bit more relaxed in this province

Just don't tell anyone.

Really sucks. Give a really cool view of the event. But if it fails, and hits a car, person or even someone stuff, well let the suing begin. people are money greedy and its kill any of the good fun we can have.

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Watch out for porcupine exiting turn 9!!!!!!

AX-1995 Honda Civic CX FSP
RR-1995 Honda DelSol VTEC GT4
2009 Canadian Solosprint Champion.
ARMS Race Director. Race@armsinc.ca

I thought that I had heard that if you have insurance, and I mean big insurance, that if you can provide proof of insurance to organisers, that you can use one? Didn't see it in writing, just hearsay.

It is ashame, as I believe, well know, that it would provide good videos of events, as I've seen videos online of them in the US.

Discovery channel is filming a show on Chumpcar and had drones at Calabogie last year and Mosport this year. Suspect the operators and Discovery had the necessary credentials and insurance. Apparently they weren't overly concerned about flying them close to the cars. Some said it was a little unnerving to come out of a corner and see a drone flying next to the car at eye level.

While having aerial shots would be very cool, I can certainly understand the reasons for the rules around them.
Perhaps as the technology evolves the rules may relax, but it doesn't take much searching to find reports of people being injured by drones at sporting events.
I'd think deer, raccoons, groundhogs, skunks, turtles, car parts, etc would be enough to worry about hitting on the track without worrying about random things falling out of the sky.
And I can't imagine what would happen if a LifeFlight was delayed due to drones in the airspace...

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"Imagine endless sarcasian fields where we dine on only the most succulent quips fresh from the vine." - PvP

I couldn't find anything in the ARMS Solo regulations wording anything about 'drones' (admittedly i looked for only a couple minutes). however, the Karting regulations say they are strictly prohibited without ASN approval. Interestingly, there was a memo from some Canadian rally association (dated April 2014) stating that commercially, they needed the prerequisites Andy stated above. However, if the pilot wasn't commercial, and rather just recreational, they had it easier.

"Where the aircraft is being used for recreational purposes, and without compensation, Transport Canada does not require an SFOC....If you have recreational operators who need insurance, membership in the Model Aeronautics Association of Canada ($80 annually) provides a $5 Million liability policy. The only requirement is that the operator has the permission of the landowner to fly from the location."

From what Paige said, I gathered that this guy would be filed under 'recreational'. Still, this isn't solo regulations. I'm sure this document has been superseded anyways, hence Dave's comment.

I''ve heard a number of rally drivers say the same, though the operators whose video I've seen lately seem to have gotten the memo and don't seem to hover the drones in sight lines.

I absolutely adore drone shots of motorsports events, but practicality and safety has to come into play. The entire drone industry is going to be fascinating to watch over the next few years/

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2005 Forester XT (Daily/B2Tuned), 2000 Subaru Impreza 2.5RS P4WD Class Rally Car, 2006 WRX RallyCross Car (Sponsors: Rally-Tech, Great North Performance, ISI Automotive)
Check out: Rally East, The Ledwidge Lookoff Rally

With regards to use of drones at AMP we regulate it based on our insurance provider's requirements set out in a detailed memo on the subject that we received recently, probably as a result of an incident somewhere. ARMS would have received the same memo.

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Andy Hill

It should be noted that their definition of commercial is pretty broad. If you post the video on a monetized youtube channel for example, you'll be in violation, and being non commercial and not being required to have the insurance and SFOC does not absolve you from a life ruining lawsuit or criminal charges if something happens. Getting hit in the head with a Phantom II @ 20 mph could definitely put someone down, and they sometimes have a mind of their own.

Has the Youtube w/ ads == Commercial been the case in Canada? The only case I've seen of that was in the US. Which isn't to say that our rules aren't just as vague and ill-defined.

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2005 Forester XT (Daily/B2Tuned), 2000 Subaru Impreza 2.5RS P4WD Class Rally Car, 2006 WRX RallyCross Car (Sponsors: Rally-Tech, Great North Performance, ISI Automotive)
Check out: Rally East, The Ledwidge Lookoff Rally

When I spoke to someone at transport Canada about this I asked if that just meant people working for a registered business/corporation and he told me it was any monetization of the usage such as selling photos privately or posting videos on the internet for ad revenue, but I don't think they have anyone actually policing this. The new rules had just been posted that day when I called so they might not even know the extent of it themselves.

Wouldn't you just avoid uploading the video associated with an incident? If you just delete whatever was captured on that day, then the flying that day was purely for recreational purposes.

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Money ---> Heat and Noise

MMSC #12/ASP