Hey guys

I thought I would start a new post from where I left off in the Regulars post.

I spent yesterday evening looking at forums, attempting to figure out which video card and monitors would work with my HP Pavilion 500-009c (http://support.hp.com/us-en/document/c03770771).

I'd like to get something that will run three monitors well (24" max, in case I decide to buy a stand), so I guess it would be an 8g card. From what I understand, most cards offer some sort of combo of different outputs. But I thought I read something where you can buy one with three of the same outputs that will run three identical monitors easily. I have a HP Pavilion 23xi IPS LED monitor...not sure if I can buy 2 more...or if I'm better off buying 3 new identical monitors. It seems that Newegg is the place to buy, eh?

With some research, I was hoping to find some confidence in what to buy. Unfortunately, I think I'm now more confused and unsure than ever! AMD bought ATI? I thought AMD was the manufacturer of a different CPU than Intel. Drake, that kid from Degrassi Junior High, is a pop star? Ugh...

Any advice or comments would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks,

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Jay Barthelotte

After a little research it seems any i5 processor with a Invidia 750 Ti or AMD R9 series vid card will run it on high end settings with 3 monitors. I have the 750Ti myself, but I only got that because it was on a good deal. I would wait until boxing day and pick one up.

Now something that you're going to need to do simultaneously is upgrade your power supply unit. (imo)
Funny thing, I did essentially the same upgrade as you're doing and while it ran it with my stock 300watt PSU, I had reliability issues. (essentially the video card required more power than my power supply could deliver consistently) I've since upgraded to a 650watt and all those issues went away. PSUs typically go for great deals on boxing day as well.

Make sure the video card is PCIe x16

Make sure the card has at least 3 outputs (they need not be the same) My card has 1 HDMI, one DVI, and one Displayport. I can rather run monitors with those inputs, or just buy cords that adapt them all to HDMI. NOTE: If 1 of the 3 outputs is VGA, you're going to need a more expensive adapter. A cord with different plugs on both ends will not work. DVI, HDMI, and DIsplayport like I have are all digital signals, VGA is analog so you would need a more expensive piece to make this HDMI (and this will limit the video quality of the monitor running from the VGA port)

For the power supply, you're going to need to make sure the one you buy has the correct plugs for your motherboard, AS WELL AS the power connection to the aftermarket video card itself. Many video cards require their own power plug, which it will explain this in the details of the card.

https://ca.pcpartpicker.com/ <---- Amazing website to compare part prices. It looks at all the major websites (tigerdirect, newegg etc) and puts them all on one page.

Maybe all this will clear things up? Feel free to post more questions if I've only confused you further.

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Yeah, it can get confusing really quick. The marketing people don't help because you can't always tell from the model numbers if something is quicker or not.

Yes, AMD bought ATI so the video cards are AMD now.

That HP link you posted is fairly helpful as it not only gives what components you have but also possible upgrade paths for things like the memory and cpu. At first glance it looks like you'll be able to run 3 screens with a good video card, but not with all the graphics options turned up. However as Dev pointed out look at upgrading the power supply. A new video card will need more power that the 300W one in there now can deliver.

The good news is that the board has a 16x PCIe slot so you should be able to stick any of the newer video cards in there. I'm surprised that the HD8470 ran iracing that well even on a single monitor. Since you have an ATI/AMD card in there already it will be easier if you stick with an AMD card as won't have to worry about driver conflicts in Windows (switching from AMD-Nvidia can cause problems).

Start with looking at the current AMD R9 lineup. Minimum would be a R9 270X (it's what I have and it'll run 3 screens but have to turn down some settings). From there you have to decide how much you want to spend in the 270X, 280, 280X, 290, 290X, 390X lineup. In trying to decide have a look at some benchmarks to see what performance improvement you are getting for the extra money (i.e if you are paying %50 more than a 270X are you get %50 more frame rates).

Once you decide on a card have a look at what ports they have. A 270X will have a different number and combination of ports then a 290 for example. Also figure out what ports your monitors will have. Then figure out which adapters you might need. For example one of my monitors is DVI, the other two HDMI/DVI. The 270X has 1 each HDMI, DVI and a display port jack. So I have HDMI-HMDI, DVI-DVI cables and a Display port to HDMI adapter to make the three connections. Yours will differ depending on which card you pick and what connections your monitor will allow. Stay away from VGA connections if at all possible (shouldn't be hard with the R9 cards and your monitor).

You current monitor should be fine if you can find 2 similar to it (1920x1080 with HDMI and DVI connections). Newegg.ca still lists the 23xi (both refurbished and new). Boxing day/week will likely give you your best deal though there are some good sales on now. 3 identical monitors is the best bet to ensure they work in three screens mode (what AMD calls an eyefinity display group).

Feel free to ask more questions as you go along.

Thanks very much Dev and Ken...very helpful...much appreciated. I'll likely pick up those refurbished HP 23xi monitors and wait until the Boxing week sales come out for the AMD video card and power supply. Anything to look out regarding the psu compatibility?

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Jay Barthelotte

The link you provided above says it's a ATX supply so just about any ATX PSU should fit in it. It will need a couple 6 pin (2x3) power connectors that deliver power directly to the video card (just about any of the bigger PSU will have these but make sure before ordering it). See a few pictures down at:
http://www.tweaktown.com/reviews/6210/s ... ndex2.html

For wattage you are probably looking at are 650W or better. Will depend on which card you get as the more powerful ones will draw more juice. That's also assuming you haven't stuffed the case with a bunch of other devices like extra hard drives. There are online PSU size calculators that will determine what size you need. For example:
http://images10.newegg.com/BizIntell/to ... Calculator
Says that with a R9 270X and the your stock HP config a 550W PSU would do. With an R9 290, a 700W would be needed.

Go with a reputable brand name PSU, eg. Seasonic, Corsair, Antec. I've had a couple no name and a Thermaltake one that either just stopped working or gave issues with blue screens/lockups when they started to go. Sometimes when a cheap PSU goes it will take out the motherboard and other components when it dies.

The modular PSU are worth looking at. They let you pull unused cable bundles from the PSU so you don't have bunches of extra wire inside the computer.

Don't disregard the newer AMD R9 300 series either. Usually more juice for the same price. I suggest the 390, as it has the 8GB of video RAM required to make things run pretty.

Thanks Ken

My desktop is completely stock, so there should be lots of room inside. Initially, I thought this would be easy...but then I noticed:
ATEX
ATEX 12V
etc...

Thanks for the links...very helpful.

I spent most of yesterday attempting to pick a video card. Ugh. Some seem to support the Eyefinity, some don't or don't say that they do. The Newegg site is pretty good for narrowing down a search, but then only a couple of video cards are left that support Eyefinity. Interesting Ryan. But does the 390 support Eyefinity? Maybe I don't need it...

The DisplayPort 1.2 is interesting...maybe this is better than Eyefinity...

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Jay Barthelotte

Thanks guys.

I'm going to wait until the Boxing Day sales start. I'll likely get:
- 2 refurbished HP 23xi monitors, 1920 X 1080, 7 ms LED (currently $149.99 ea...25% off...tempted to get them now...but...)
- an AMD Radeon R9 390 or 390x video card, 4 GB or 8 GB ($500 max)
- a 750W or higher PSU
- cables, if required.

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Jay Barthelotte

I'm pretty sure if you are going to use Eyefinity (which I highly recommend) you'll need a display port adapter for 3 monitors.
Both McIntyre and I run a 3 monitor setup, with ATI(AMD) GPUs and we have to use a Display Port with an Active Adapter to get the 3rd monitor to work.

I'm not sure exactly what McIntyre runs, but I run dual R9 270X's (Crossfired) over 3 monitors.
I believe they are setup to use DVI, DVI and DisplayPort.

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"The future is already here — it's just not very evenly distributed."-William Gibson
1989 Van Diemen - Formula 2000 Continental

Yeah, I'm running one DVI port, one HDMI port and one mini DisplayPort off my graphics card. For the mini DisplayPort, I use the following active adapter: www.newegg.ca/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16812200944

I don't recall why I have it configured this way, only that it's what I needed at the time I set everything up.

The Hardware section of the iRacing forum has lots of useful information with regards to setting up graphics cards / multiple monitors / etc.

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1997 Talon TSi AWD
2008 EVO X MR

Thanks Jason and Scott for sharing your setup info. I guess if I go with those older monitors (that only offer HDMI, DVI), I'll (likely) have to get an adaptor for the third monitor (unless the card I select has 2 DVI and 1 HDMI).

I'm not sure if an amazing deal on monitors might happen during Boxing day sales. Ideally, I guess it would be nice to pick up three monitors that feature DisplayPort...that are close to the affordability of my consideration for two refurbished HP 23xi monitors to match the one I have. It's tempting to just order the refurbs now (while they're still available) and pick up a PSU, video card and cables next week.

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Jay Barthelotte

I believe the issue isn't the # / type of ports it's that the video cards can only output to 2 displays, unless an Active Display Port Adapter is used.

EG my video card has 2 DVIs, HDMI and DP. However (without using the DP) I can only display to either 2xDVI or 1xDVI+HDMI. It switches the 2nd display to either the 2nd DVI or HDMI (not both).

Now this maybe different on the absolute latest gen of cards (mine are about a year old), but a quick Google search shows people having to use DPs with the R9 380x for 3 monitors.

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"The future is already here — it's just not very evenly distributed."-William Gibson
1989 Van Diemen - Formula 2000 Continental

Ah, that would explain why I'm using an Active Display Port Adapter instead of my two DVI ports (plus HDMI).

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1997 Talon TSi AWD
2008 EVO X MR

Hmm, that might have to do with the resolution limitations of HDMI and DVI over Display Port that requires Display port to be used at some point in the chain. Newer HDMI can support up to 4K resolution, but DP can show up to 7680 × 4320.

That's my guess on it, anyway.

Interesting. I'm wondering if I should choose a card that has three Display Ports. From a non-enthusiast point of view, I can't believe you can't simply buy a decent video card that offers three (or more) DVI ports. It just seems so wrong to have a video card that has one of each...but says it supports multiple monitors. There has to be a performance disadvantage.

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Jay Barthelotte

There seems to be a lot of confusion on the topic, with some people running 3 monitors just fine using DVI and HDMI only.

Not sure what to offer at this point, but most video cards offer two of one and at least one of the other. It is probably the most confounding part of video cards today. Try a Google search for 'Triple Monitor Gaming AMD 390'. That should give you some tips.

Yeah, some of the confusion comes from that you can run a 3 screen desktop without a DP connection in some cases, but to do gaming in 3 screens (eyefinity) an active display port adapter may be needed. The faster R9 cards were supposed to not require an adapter according to the specs before they were released, but there are a lot of forum posts with people saying they needed an adapter to get eyefinity to work (I needed one with the HD 5850 and the R9 270X). But it seems to depend on which card and what monitor connections are used. So don't worry about the DP adapter Jay until you pick out the card and monitors. Once you decide on those you can google to see if you need a DP adapter. The adapters are fairly cheap if you do need one.

BTW Jay if you do end up needing an adapter make sure it is an ACTIVE displayport adapter (tend to be around $30+ instead of the $5-$10 for the passive ones).

That is critical.... it must be ACTIVE.

There is absolutely no perceivable performance disadvantage from the monitor running the display port.
In fact I can't even tell you which of the 3 sitting on my desk is plugged into what on the back of my machine... I'd have to physically follow the wires back at this point to know.

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"The future is already here — it's just not very evenly distributed."-William Gibson
1989 Van Diemen - Formula 2000 Continental

Well, I didn't really see any Boxing Day deals on cards. Any comments on the following:

SAPPHIRE NITRO Radeon R9 380 DirectX 12 100384NT4GOC-2L 4GB 256-Bit GDDR5 PCI Express 3.0 x16 HDCP Ready Dual-X OC Version w/ backplate (UEFI) Video Card

http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814202166

I thought about the 390 8G, but...it's expensive and huge...

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Jay Barthelotte

The 380 should work well with a triple monitor setup. It's faster than the 270X (roughly equivalent a R9 285). For a comparison see:
http://gpuboss.com/gpus/Radeon-R9-380-vs-Radeon-R9-270X

The 4GB of memory on the card should help (only 2GB on the 270X). Doubt you'll be able to turn up all the settings but you'd need really high end setup to do that with iracing, but it should still look good while getting good frame rates.

I've had good reliability and performance from Sapphire cards.

See it lists: 1 x DL-DVI-I 1 x DL-DVI-D 1 x HDMI 1 x DisplayPort
which is the same as my 270X, so you will a need an ACTIVE Display port adapter.

Thanks Ken.

I think you mentioned early on that the model numbers are not really linked to performance. The AMD 290X, 380X and other -X cards seem to offer some significant performance over the non-X designation cards. I was hoping to find some examples on the iRacing forums, but many are still using older cards.

Because of my monitor resolution (1920 x 1080) and running iRacing in 1080p, I was tempted to go with the 380 or 380X, but now I think I should go with the 390.

I'll probably pull the trigger on this. Otherwise, I might go crazy and take up something like darts or bowling.

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Jay Barthelotte

Any of those should work well. Of course the more powerful the card the more eyecandy you get to turn on, but any of those will run triple monitors with iracing, but don't think you'll see a huge difference between them.

Yeah, marketing really confuses things. Even some of the older 6000 and 7000 series cards (before the R9 200 series) still perform better than some of the r9 300 series. Luckily there are charts like the one below that group the cards to get an idea of relative performance:
http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/gpu ... ,4388.html

Thanks Ken.

I'm looking at a Rosewill hive 850W psu...on sale. Not sure about its reliability. It's about the same price as a Corsair CX 750W, but offers more power and it's modular.

http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817182314&_ga=1.194538349.1349045492.1450482746

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Jay Barthelotte

No experience with rosewill but it gets as good reviews as the Cosair, and does give a little more headroom on the 12V rail, and connectors and ratings seem to be the same. Again either one would should be fine (BTW there is a modular Corsair 750 on newegg for the same price, maybe a little less with promo code applied :
http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product.as ... 6817139051 )

Thanks! That looks like a good deal...

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Jay Barthelotte

I noticed this Antec psu...reliable, good price, but it has the 20+4 connector instead of the newer 24 connector. Some say you just plug them both into the motherboard...no problem. Others say you need an adapter...

http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817371073

Is this just an old reliable psu that might not work well with my newer motherboard? Maybe I should just go with the Corsair CX750m
http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817139051

I've decided that the Sapphire R9 390 is too big and will likely hit my hdd. The 380 it is!

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Jay Barthelotte

Good that you've settled on the card.

Didn't see "modular" mentioned in the Antec PSU description. See it's has dual 12V rails and is 80+gold (the others were bronze so it's more efficient). I had a PSU with the 20+4 connector and it worked fine with a 24pin motherboard (the 4pin connector dovetails onto the end of the 20 to make a 24 pin). The motherboard connections are made to standards so surprised an adapter would be needed. There might be some confusion as there is also a P4 (4 pin) connector that usually plugs in near the cpu away from the main motherboard connector (so older PSUs might have been referred to as 20+4 when they meant "20 main connector and P4 connector", which is different than the 20+4 main motherboard connector). There were adapters that would allow older PSUs to create a P4 connector to use with newer motherbaords. Given that your motherboard is fairly new and it's a new PSU that shouldn't be an issue (i.e a 20+4 will also come with a P4 connector).

Thanks Ken. Internet research can be misleading, but assumption is the mother of all f*ck-ups.

I might go with the Antec. It's not modular, but it might be considered more reliable and efficient. I have the 4 pin CPU plug, but I guess the 8 socket EPS plugs into it. The Corsair semi modular is tempting though...

I'll likely place an order today. Thanks again for your help.

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Jay Barthelotte

Well, I finally received my power supply, video card and monitors yesterday.

I had to mod my chassis so that I could connect the 2x6 pci plugs to the video card. After starting it up, restarting and installing the drivers, it works. I simply have to figure out the best settings for everything.

The only problem I have is that one of the monitors arrived damaged. It has a 2.5" dead semi-circle area at the top of the screen. I checked Newegg stock and they don't have any more of these monitors...ugh...not sure if I should return it.

Now to get used to the triple monitor setup...

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Jay Barthelotte