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 Post subject: Spec Miata 2.0
PostPosted: Tue Oct 04, 2016 12:52 pm 
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Hi Folks as not to sidetrack the JCM thread in race I will start this on here.

Brian Bent suggested a stripped down version of Spec Miata which seems like a good idea

"I have a proposal. A serious one. Where the agm might not be a typical agm tbis year, I would like to propose at this time, that if the founding fathers of spec miata are not interested in the series for next year that the miatas run in a miata series. As they are. At the same time as the gt race cars. I will head it up. There will be no scales. No tire restrictions. We will be classed as miata. Only rule with a penalty is the rule, "Must have fun". Break that rule! Relegated to the gt ranks until such time you have exhibited behavior worthy of the SPIRIT award.. Ok the last part is serious but with no penalty. There are no questions to work out therefor a Simple yes or no by all miata owners will suffice. If it gets to the point of 4 to 5 seconds a lap difference between cars like in previous years then it will be settled by implementing a 2 division classing. Thats only if someone gripes about the difference. Whos interested?"

ARMS can offer things like a separate races for SM2.0 , scaling if you wanted and so on , if you brought something that resembled a rule set we would even try to help you follow it.

Not try to control or quash anything as odd as it seems we are all here to have fun and work together .

I welcome all discussion on the idea but not petty complaining and assorted silliness

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 Post subject: Re: Spec Miata 2.0
PostPosted: Tue Oct 04, 2016 2:08 pm 
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I would like to see Spec Miata come back in some form.

I would prefer to continue with some sort of a rule set that at least tries to equalize the cars.

I would rather run with the GT cars than be in a little group of 4 or 5 Miatas on their own.

Anything that can be done to keep things fun (not just for Miatas, but for ARMS racing in general) is A-OK with me.


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 Post subject: Re: Spec Miata 2.0
PostPosted: Tue Oct 04, 2016 6:24 pm 
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Thanks Jimmy. Much appreciated. I would only be interested in heading up this proposal if Bruce and Blu were not. I still believe that miata is their thing. I would reiterate to Andy and others that to keep car counts per race at a level that produces someone to race with that we all run together. Miata and gt. Also I would suggest that the miata s run under identical ruling as gt. No special rules or governing on your part. Anything more than that leads to conflict and bickering. Plus you guys dont need any more officiating than you already have. For Andys statement. There was in previous years a 5or 6 second gap between first place cars and last place cars. With all the spec in the world you will not make that any different. My proposal is simple. Run as is. No extra work for officials just class miatas in the gt race as miata. I personally am not interested in bullshit so if that is not the way people want to run. I will be out. I am happy in gt 5.


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 Post subject: Re: Spec Miata 2.0
PostPosted: Tue Oct 04, 2016 7:24 pm 
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Put me down for the points Mitch made above. The only thing I would add is that there would need to be sponsorship package that creates some benefit for running in SM before I would be interested. If it's just creating a SM class that runs the same as a GT class then I'd just as soon run in a GT class.

The big thing that SM had going for it, for me anyway, is that there were benefits (financial) over just running in GT. Things like parts discounts, participation credits, tire coupons, contingency money, etc. that came from sponsors. While the big payouts went to the front runners, there was still something worthwhile for the backmarkers. Even just the parts discount was a help. Without at least some of that stuff I`d rather just stick to running in GT5 and mix it up with the Hondas and VW`s. They already just seem to be racing for fun without a lot of rules and if we are racing them on track it only makes sense to me that we are in the same class.

Looking forward to see any proposal that includes a sponsorship/driver benefit package. On the flip side if someone were to put a sponsorship package together for the TRAC series where the benefits made it less costly for the race teams I'd be happy to see that as well.


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 Post subject: Re: Spec Miata 2.0
PostPosted: Tue Oct 04, 2016 7:55 pm 
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Your jumping the gun kenny. Need to have a plan in place. You cant get sponsors if you have no cars. The proposal starts things off. Sponsorship starts once a plan is in place. And believe me sposorship is no easy sell. I cant promise millions of dollars by approaching potential sponsors with no idea what we are doing. We have no miata series. We have a simple way to class as a miata series to sponsors. We have a simple race plan for all racers. What more do you need to start with? I am thinking of the guys that want to run in a miata class. Im not doing this for myself. As you know I have run gt all along. Anyway I can see where this is going so I willl no longer comment on site.. As with Trump My political career is over.


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 Post subject: Re: Spec Miata 2.0
PostPosted: Tue Oct 04, 2016 9:07 pm 
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Well, if Blu and Bruce are going to have anything to do with it, we will need someone to be a "go between" from them and from ARMS, as it's pretty evident that it won't happen on its own. And as Brian Bent said, he believes that "this is their thing", and it will always be in some minds. Like the JCM, sorry James, but I think you'll agree, was always Bill's race, for Jack.
Anyway, as a full supporter of this series from the beginning, as it brought in up to 12 cars, and that helps with our racer count, and a competitor for 3 of those years (Thanks again Mitch!), crew for the only SM competitor this year, I would like to see it continue as well. The rules are in our rule book, GCR's, the same as they always have been. The spec tire may have to change as the R888 is rumored to be going out of production, but this series can be fun! And if we get our act together, it can happen. But it needs to be soon if we want the 2-car teams coming back. I'll talk to Blu and get his feelings on this, if it's going to go forward without them promoting it, Bent, I'll have your back! But I want to make you a new restrictor plate, lol. That was a joke, laugh! Or are you still thinking about me on your back??? That was a figure of speech. Settle down :wink: :P


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 Post subject: Re: Spec Miata 2.0
PostPosted: Tue Oct 04, 2016 9:52 pm 
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Hang on, Bent's idea had merit, but there was no mention that the idea was to get car count up and then try to get sponsorship (it does take time and effort, and there is the chicken-egg thing*). I could get behind that, but there would have to be some tweaks to the initial proposal.

Counter proposal: Run the Miatas in a "Miata bracket" , could be same as GT5 to start or tweaked to match the current cars but the idea would be to make sure they can all run within a 2 second span. Same bracket rules apply including breakouts. Any Miata that runs in the Miata bracket will be classed as a "Miata" and the Miata class would have their own standings/championship. Run with GT until numbers reach sufficient size (say 5?) to have their own race. Tires, restrictors, weight, etc. could remain open (same as in GT5 now), or at least until sponsors require a change (eg Toyo comes back). That would give anyone that wanted to promote the series a group of cars to show off, results, standings, etc.

So this would be no real change from running in GT5 as this past year, except for on the scoring side, and gives anyone that wanted to promote it a series to take to potential sponsors. Or at least until someone stepped up to make it a true Spec Miata series again.

Now , hopefully the CRX/Civic/Del Sol teams don't see this and request a "Honda class". ;-)

*EDIT: PS If you look back to the original SM series announcement they had sponsors and incentives in place before the first race of the series with a confirmed car count of 4: viewtopic.php?f=40&t=9916 )


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 Post subject: Re: Spec Miata 2.0
PostPosted: Wed Oct 05, 2016 8:32 am 
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kenmackay wrote:
The big thing that SM had going for it, for me anyway, is that there were benefits (financial) over just running in GT.


Yes, I liked all that stuff too. But I don't think you want to overplay the importance of sponsorship - aside from the $50 race entry fee subsidy, I don't think the stuff that was previously on offer offset in any significant way the costs of racing for backmarkers like me. And in some ways I think it actually caused problems.

I mean, don't get me wrong - it was nice, I loved the t-shirts and interest from all those outside people, but the real prize the pointy-end people in the previous series were chasing was the Mazda shoot out thing. And there were some (IMHO) that were pretty serious about it, and spending money out of all proportion with the concept of an entry-level club racing class. I loved competing with them (because I think it made me a better racer, quicker than I would have progressed otherwise) but I was never going to cash in on any of the big prizes. So I personally don't care if those ever come back, if we are just trying to get SM back off it's knees and start the series again.

Just my two cents. Nobody get offended.


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 Post subject: Re: Spec Miata 2.0
PostPosted: Wed Oct 05, 2016 9:47 am 
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Yeah, there was no doubt that some were spending a lot to try to win the big prizes, and because of the prizes some were taking it way more seriously than I'd ever want to. Frankly if it went back to requiring expensive rebuilds every couple years just to try to keep up I wouldn't be in the series. However just getting something like the Mills deal and the tow fund back again would make me happy. Couldn't find the 2015 payouts, but in 2014 even as low as 10th place was paying enough to make it worth my while to run SM instead of GT.

So if the perks that come with sponsorship aren't the reason for having a separate Miata series then why do you want one (this is directed to everyone, not just Mitch)? Running in a GT bracket is about as close to a rules free, unrestricted, for-fun club racing as you can get, IMO. The only other incentive I can think of is that running as a separate series/class is that there is a better shot at the Mazda contingency money (presumably if there are only 4-5 of us we'd all have a better chance of getting a podium finish at some point compared to being mixed in with the GT class), but that's not a lot of money even if you won all 5 races. So why a Miata series then?


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 Post subject: Re: Spec Miata 2.0
PostPosted: Wed Oct 05, 2016 10:34 am 
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kenmackay wrote:
....and the tow fund back again


Do you know something I don't? Nobody ever gave me tow money.


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 Post subject: Re: Spec Miata 2.0
PostPosted: Wed Oct 05, 2016 10:50 am 
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There was mention of a tow fund in the original SM announcement. That's all I know about it but I liked the sound of it: viewtopic.php?f=40&t=9916


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 Post subject: Re: Spec Miata 2.0
PostPosted: Wed Oct 05, 2016 12:19 pm 
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Hi

Brian B. and Brian P. I am very sure any interest that Blu had for running SM this year is gone by the wayside for the 2017 season so don`t worry about that for now. Keeping working your way forward wit this idea.

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 Post subject: Re: Spec Miata 2.0
PostPosted: Wed Oct 05, 2016 5:49 pm 
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This is my promoter Brian and my other promoter Brian. :orglaugh: :mrgreen:

Seriously though, I think you two should work on a plan to put a Spec Miata series together. Work on a set of rules that most can live with, get some commitment from people that own Spec Miata, and then see if you can get sponsors in place ( and if you can get something started on that last one it will help with the second one).


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 Post subject: Re: Spec Miata 2.0
PostPosted: Thu Oct 06, 2016 10:06 pm 
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I like Bent's idea. If my SM does not sell and my health returns I'd like to race next year. To he-hockeystick-hockeystick with the SM rules. They were never really enforced anyway. You cannot have a spec series if you do not enforce the rules. Just weighing cars after a race is not really enforcing the rules. There would need to be random (and sometimes not random) inspections of various components of the cars to ensure they were within spec. I played in the stock car world for 5 years, and believe me tech inspection pre- and post-race, including tranny teardowns, rear-end gear checks, axles removed and checked, engine heads removed and inspected, etc was regularly done. Way too much involved for the FUN racing Bent is proposing, so I can't see it happening. A true SM series has proven to be beyond the means, capabilities, and interests of many that were involved, on all sides -- and would be so in the future as well. So moving on to something like Bent is proposing is a good idea. Nice and simple, other cars to race with, and FUN. I think I'll drop a 2004 mazdaspeed turbo engine in my car and kick some but racing with the faster cars. Or maybe even buy a kit and swap in a Honda Oddesy engine. That way I won't feel out of place racing all those other Honda products on the track! LOL.

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 Post subject: Re: Spec Miata 2.0
PostPosted: Fri Oct 07, 2016 7:17 am 
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Hmmm... lots of interesting stuff to think about here. Some of it hard to face up to.

I understand the backlash against rules. I don't like bickering and fighting over petty little things any more than the rest of you, and it's easy to blame 'rules' for that. But wouldn't having an 'open miata' series lead to more inequity between cars and competitors in that class than we would see in any of the existing GT brackets? I don't see the advantage of having a separate class, if that's going to be the case.

I got interested in racing cars because SM was the most popular club racing class in North America, and had lots of resources for a newbie to draw on. I had already tried (and given up on) understanding the car classing rules for other forms of racing at AMP. I couldn't bring myself to jump into one of those classes of racing for fear of making a fool of myself, they all looked super-expensive and serious. But SM was different. With SM there were forums offering advice, vendors selling whole cars and parts, a whole community out there to provide support. And the cars were obviously entry-level, underpowered and cute. It seemed a lot more approachable, so I gave it a try. And I think the same sorts of things might still work to attract new people here, if we can put the sour taste and bad smells of the past behind us. Not sure 'open miata' has the same draw.

Again, just my two cents worth. I'm open to anything that moves us forward.


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 Post subject: Re: Spec Miata 2.0
PostPosted: Fri Oct 07, 2016 8:46 am 
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IMO, GT bracket class is the way to go for our region. We simply do not have the resources to Police rules sets, thus the current GT rules work for us.

As long as people race anything there can't be parity. There are so many variables. Just look at F1, Indycar, Nascar, etc. There is a wide range from the pointy end to the butt end of any race series. Spec Miata is no different.

IMO, spec Miata is spec Miata and if you start something else, they are no longer spec Miata and thus, now, simply a GT car. If you start modifying your spec Miata then the value of that car will drop like a hot potato big time. If you want simplicity and equality in a new rule set for some sort of new Miata race series then perhaps, arguably the simplest thing to do would be to add reward weight to the car, thus you are not modifying it from what it is. For every race win, you add 25lbs. It wont be long before all cars are running up front. No need for tear-downs, etc. Just weight the cars.

I would like to see the Miatas all racing again in their own series regardless of what you call it. ARMS executives need to get off their butts and do whatever is necessary to make something happen. They need to have the "can-do" attitude and start to do something to turn things around.

Anyway....just my $.02.

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 Post subject: Re: Spec Miata 2.0
PostPosted: Fri Oct 07, 2016 11:04 am 
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Andy Mitchell wrote:
But wouldn't having an 'open miata' series lead to more inequity between cars and competitors in that class than we would see in any of the existing GT brackets? I don't see the advantage of having a separate class, if that's going to be the case.

Bruce McNutt wrote:
IMO, GT bracket class is the way to go for our region. We simply do not have the resources to Police rules sets, thus the current GT rules work for us... IMO, spec Miata is spec Miata and if you start something else, they are no longer spec Miata and thus, now, simply a GT car.

Those pretty much sum up my thoughts on the subject. GT5 sounds a lot better than an 'open miata' series.

FWIW We did something like what Bruce suggested with 'success ballast' in an online league. There all the cars were equal so it was the drivers and setups making the difference, but to keep the grid close we added weight to the podium finishers and removed ballast if they finished below a certain place. After a few events most of the field were running very close times and the better drivers still came out ahead in the standings.

Could almost get the same thing from the first event if a low bracket time was set. For example set a target time of 1:21+. Everyone adds weight (or smaller tires, restrictors, etc) so the best lap they can put in is a low 1:21. If you break out during a race you get weight added for the next race depending on how badly you break out (say 10 lbs for every 0.1s under for the worst breakout). Hopefully what we'd end up with is a bunch a Miatas all circulating in the 1:21s.

But racing in a GT bracket sounds a lot easier and just as much fun.


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 Post subject: Re: Spec Miata 2.0
PostPosted: Fri Oct 07, 2016 11:51 am 
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Andy Mitchell wrote:
I got interested in racing cars because SM was the most popular club racing class in North America, and had lots of resources for a newbie to draw on. ... With SM there were forums offering advice, vendors selling whole cars and parts, a whole community out there to provide support.


Exactly, Andy!

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 Post subject: Re: Spec Miata 2.0
PostPosted: Tue Oct 11, 2016 1:04 pm 
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I think Brian B. original was aimed at a group all running very similar cars with in our current GT series and kind of keeping track of themselves for who won.( I could be wrong feel free to correct me Brian ) .

I do have concerns about that and worry it could get out of hand quickly and end up with a bunch of hurt feeling and pissed off people. That being said we can`t stop people from comparing notes at the end of a race.

I agree with Bruce to a point we are strapped for staff and finding manpower to police a true spec series is difficult we could however work with the reward weight plan with out a lot of problem

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 Post subject: Re: Spec Miata 2.0
PostPosted: Tue Oct 11, 2016 4:41 pm 
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My proposal was a simple one to get people that were not running their cars because there was no miata series to bring their cars out.
The run with gt cars idea was to keep the entire field of cars to a reasonable number.
The non spec idea was to relieve arms of more work and bullshit.
The idea of a bracket system or a and b group was to appease the likes of Andy and Mckay .
For me if people are not content with this simple appraoch I personally will run gt 5 and spare myself from all the griping and whining that will surely ensue.
Its simple for me. Take it or leave it.


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 Post subject: Re: Spec Miata 2.0
PostPosted: Tue Oct 11, 2016 5:44 pm 
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Why not just have a gentlemens agreement to run according to the S/M rules, and run tire XYZ.

Then everyone go race their Miata?

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 Post subject: Re: Spec Miata 2.0
PostPosted: Tue Oct 11, 2016 9:50 pm 
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One thing perhaps worth remembering here is that the current Miata field really covers two different GT brackets and will probably split next year anyway.

Even though we were classed as GT5 this year, Luc and I were really more like GT6 based on performance. I think we ended up in GT5 basically because the top dogs could do those sorts of times in previous years, and neither he or I really cared much where they put us. Brian though, either through his superior driving skills or unrestricted 1800 cc motor, has clearly moved up to where he could match those former front runners and belongs in GT5.

The real question is if there is some way to keep us all together in a single class, or whether it is inevitable that we all go off to whatever GT bracket fits us best in 2017.


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 Post subject: Re: Spec Miata 2.0
PostPosted: Wed Oct 12, 2016 8:23 am 
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Brian: If it's "a and b groups" then I'm not interested. No point in subdividing what will already be a small group. Only way I'd do a and b groups is if there were at least 4-5 cars in each group. Until there are enough cars for that then not interested.

If it's bracket system then maybe. Depends on what the bracket is (lap time) and what happens when someone breaks out. What are you proposing for a bracket system?

BTW in case you haven't caught on to what Mitch, Brian P and I have been hinting at: Are you willing to slow your car down enough to race with the other Miatas (ie. Mitch and Luc/Brian P)? If you aren't let us know, no hard feelings, and we can all move on.

James: I'd want to see official results for the miata series. Suspect it would be easier to promote a series if there are results for it. If we are just going to have a friendly rivalry between miata drivers we can do that in GT.

Ian: What you suggest is what the old spec miata series was if you took away the sponsorship/prizes (there was no tech inspection for GCR compliance other than weight). Keeping up in that series meant spending money (engine rebuilds, fresh tires, etc.) that some of us can't/won't.


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 Post subject: Re: Spec Miata 2.0
PostPosted: Wed Oct 12, 2016 9:19 am 
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Yeah a and b is bracket. Say 1:20 and higher. 1:20 and lower. You guys are worried about a 2 second difference between cars when there were 6 seconds between them when the series was running. I was trying to build a barn here to get things going. You are expecting me to have already built a finely crafted piano and you are requiring me to professionally fine tune it before I have someone to play it. NOT INTERESTED. Im OUT. I would suggest that you get things going Mckay. Just get on the phone and ask sponsors for money , or perhaps where it is so easy maybe they are already in line to delve out the bucks. Then you could wave your magic wand and make all cars and drivers run the exact same times and every race would have a photo finish. Did I mention I am OUT. GT 5 FOR ME. Might be a stretch but I think the bullshit has officially killed spec and the only ones I feel bad for are Bruce and Blu that worked their asses off beyond anything you will ever imagine.


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 Post subject: Re: Spec Miata 2.0
PostPosted: Wed Oct 12, 2016 12:39 pm 
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:huh: What just happened? You proposed something (again). I said what I liked and didn't like about it, and then asked some questions. Most people would call that having a discussion. My apologies if that somehow offended you but I like to know what I'm signing up for before I agree to it.

Brian, I take it from your response that you are not interested in slowing your car down. That's fine, can understand why you don't want to, but you should be able to understand why people in the slower cars don't want to race with a car that has an advantage. Too bad you bailed (again). Best of luck in GT5.

For the other miata drivers/owners: Assuming that Brian B is indeed out (again), is there still interest for an miata series? I'd be next to useless when it comes to promotion, but I'd be more than happy to sit down and try work out a set of rules that we could live with. In fact it would look fairly close to what Brian proposed above. We'd have to agree on a bracket (GT6? , 1:20+), and what the penalty for breaking out would be (same as a GT class breakout?). Would also like to have at least some definition of what the car requirements would be (eg. a miata, with SM suspension, with a miata engine/driveline/bodywork, no engine swaps, turbos, etc.), just so the cars at least look like spec miatas and that if someone shows up with one they could race with us. Maybe sit down and keep the basic parts of the current GCR that we like and toss the rest? Other than that, same as what Brian proposed above. If someone wants talk to the non-active SM drivers to see if that would work for them then that would be great (or if they happen to be reading this, share their thoughts on it either here or in a PM). If we can pull that together then maybe someone would be willing to try to drum up some sponsors at some point. Open to suggestions.

PS if you just want to race in GT, that's fine with me too. Even if a miata series is formed I suspect I'll still race any VW or Honda that is running near my pace. :wink:


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 Post subject: Re: Spec Miata 2.0
PostPosted: Wed Oct 12, 2016 1:03 pm 
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I don`t think anyone was trying to make you build a baby grand piano but maybe just tighten the doors on the barn some.


I`m not saying promotion and sponsorship are a bad thing but about the same time you mix money in is when it goes to hell. I would like to see this go forward and I am will to help however I can but as it stands I and others on both sides spent large quantities of time and effort last year to try and work out deal only to have it fall to hell in a hand basket so you will have to excuse me if I am a little gun shy about similar stuff now.

Spec Miata was offered as a class for the 2016 season but we had only one racer for the first three events this year , if in 2017 we had more than three interested parties we can certainly run it as a separate class again.

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 Post subject: Re: Spec Miata 2.0
PostPosted: Wed Oct 12, 2016 1:23 pm 
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Well, I will be back as a Spec Miata. And I think it would be cool to have enough like-minded folks to make it a class again. But I'm open-minded, I'm not going to get upset over anything, no matter what happens.

I do know that unless a whole bunch of SM cars turn up, I'd probably prefer to actually race mixed in with the rest of the GT field - you don't think about classes and trophies while out on the track, just the car ahead of / behind you that you are racing with. And the more cars you have, the more chance there is to actually have someone close to you. I wanna race with those Vantage Volkswagens again!

I'm hoping that Brian's not as upset as he sounds. Internet communication often is sort of tone-deaf, and maybe that's what is going on here. Even if he does decide to run in a different class than me, no biggie, I'll still be happy to see him at the track (and to try to catch him).


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 Post subject: Re: Spec Miata 2.0
PostPosted: Thu Oct 13, 2016 9:51 am 
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Your usually right on most things Jimmy but not so much on the barn/piano scenario. Go back and look at some of the demands/requests of the previous posts. In any event to address one of your concerns regarding us deciding who wins a race. Miata finishing positions would be determined by timing and scoring. Same as all other cars are. None issue. Which is truely a none issue if there is no miata class.

To address the foolishness. I wonder if Aaron and Mike were ever asked to slow down when they were 6 seconds a lap faster than the last place car? 1:18.00 flat they were doing. Im at 1:20. See how bizarre that statement in your previous post is now Mckay? I would have loved to see you go up to either one of them and make that statement. I am not slowing my car down artificially for anything or anyone. I can do that naturally through my old age and lack of skill. I race because of speed as should most. Thats why they call it RACING. If you want to go to the track and go DRIVING, thats up to you. I think they have events for that. Anyway this is all useless info I am providing but couldnt bite my tongue hard enough on those points. Still love everyone.
Thanks Kevin for your common sense and thanks Andy for your concern. I may get frustrated but I never get mad at anyone. Just ask Machon. Hes one of my favorite people at the track.


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 Post subject: Re: Spec Miata 2.0
PostPosted: Thu Oct 13, 2016 11:36 am 
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Ok, so far we seem to have:

Barney is out unless he's allowed to go as fast as he wants and doesn't have to follow any rules.

Kevin, if he is able to return/still has a car, would also be for "go fast - no rules".

Mitch is open minded as long as there are enough cars (more than 5) around his pace to race with. Prefers equalization between cars.

Same goes for me regarding having a few cars around my pace to race with. Would like some form of equalization if there are only a few cars (see first point). Would add that costs are a concern. Not worried about sponsors/prizes at this point.

Brian P seems to want to stick to the GCRs, including a spec tire, and run it as a spec series.

Please correct me if I've misread something, you have changed your mind, or would like to add something, but that seems to be where we are at the moment.


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 Post subject: Re: Spec Miata 2.0
PostPosted: Fri Oct 14, 2016 7:00 am 
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Brian Bent wrote:
You guys are worried about a 2 second difference between cars when there were 6 seconds between them when the series was running.


I think the word 'cars' is out of place in that statement. There might have been a 6 second difference between drivers, but there certainly wasn't a 6 second difference between the cars.

And I'm OK with that. In fact, it's part of why I like Spec Miata. In bracket racing, slow drivers in fast cars compete heads-up with fast drivers in slow cars. In Spec racing, a slow driver is just slow, no matter what car you put them in. And it was that way in our previous series.

Does anyone out there really think I could've beaten Aaron just by swapping cars? If so, you're delusional. I shared cars back-to-back with him, and I can assure you the difference due to driving skill was way bigger than any differences that might have existed between the various cars in the series.

So, give me a break about our past problems with 'tech'. Going forward, I can't see why anyone would cheat if there aren't any prizes anyway. But, if it's going to be a big concern, require three signatures to trigger a tear-down and make the non-refundable protest fees high enough to pay someone to do it. Otherwise, my suggestion would be for the slow guys (myself included) to just accept that it's not all car-related, take your drubbings and try to learn something from them. After all, lots of people pay for driver ed - and racing with someone better than you is a way more effective way to improve your driving IMHO.

Just my opinion. Not aimed at anyone in particular, and I apologize in advance if anyone finds it offensive.


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