Hey John, great to hear that you're considering going racing. You wouldn't think it, but it's a much bigger rush than track days. Not that there's anything wrong with track days (I love those too), it's just more intense in ways that are hard to explain. I hope you do it.

If there's anything I can do to help just get in touch. I think you live somewhere near me (and Brian P. too, for that matter). I know we'd both be happy to give you our thoughts on any car you were considering buying. Cool if you're thinking Spec Miata, still cool even if it's something else.

Our white car is for sale, we sold the green one its on itd way to manitoba.

Good car right there! Gerald, I'm really sorry to see it go. I wish things could have worked out better around here......

Someone in Manitoba is getting a good car!

Hey, I think I figured out how to post a link to that Facebook pic (thanks to Leigh for demonstrating how in his stock car thread). Try this:

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid ... =3&theater

Not that it's terribly important, I think everybody involved in this thread has probably already seen it anyway. Just posting the link in case someone new comes along and wonders what I might have been talking about.

Carry on .

There's a discussion going on through group email regarding tires; basically do we want to go with the new R888R or another tire. If anyone has suggestions on a good tire for the series (similar performance to the R888 dry and wet, better wear/heat cycles, readily available, easier on the budget) we'd be interested in hearing about it.

PS if you want to be on the email list for the series please PM me your email address.

Wrote this in the Pro Stock thread but gets to what I'd like the SM series to look like next year:


Will be useful to keep an eye on the Pro Stock thread as they have some of the same issues when it comes to rules and enforcement.

Hey John, I'm sure you know this already, but there are a number of places on the web that regularly advertise SM's for sale from outside the area. Racingjunk is probably the best-known, but it's not Miata-specfic; MazdaRacers and the SM Facebook group mostly are. Links below:

https://www.facebook.com/groups/201850683336583/

http://mazdaracers.com/

http://www.racingjunk.com/

I saw a good deal on a SM/SM2 car pop up on the Facebook page just this morning. Actually getting a US car here is a bit of a pain, but not too bad (ask me, I know). Just something to consider.

Thanks.

I am probing some various options (miata and other). Also working on the boss (wife) at the same time. Things were looking good and then I made a mistake of mentioning racing one night when she was tired, and the dream nearly died in under two minutes. But I am back on track I think. Anyone willing to babysit on race weekends?

I get the racing vs lapping. Each has it's pros and cons, and risk to reward ratios. I think racing is for those that want/can handle the extremes of the pros/cons.

_________________
73 BMW 2002tii / 84 Porsche 911 3.4 / 1997 BMW e36 M3 “the rocket” / 2016 Ford Focus RS

I'm currently building a track kid! His name is Benson, you met him.

Seven years old, can't wait to hit the road on a Saturday to camp at the track and see his friends.

Makes for good father/son time, and mom gets to have a little time off.

And I get to race!

Getting my kids out of the house for the weekend is a big selling point for my wife. Though now they want to drive the car!

As Leigh said, getting the family involved is a great way to get away with it. My son turned 8 early this year so he started Kart Racing, it looked like so much fun I had to try it myself and it is a blast. Now this gives my son and I one more thing that we can do together and my wife doesn't get upset because I'm heading to "the track" agian...lol Funny part was I thought this would give her more time to herself but she was up every morning and helped me load the Karts and came to all our events. She even took our son to a double Kart race alone while I was away in Quebec racing, she's the best!!! If I'm still racing in 7 years (can't see why not) then my son will be 15 and as long as he is still Karting, then he will be able to jump into a sedan or open wheel car and we will continue to have fun at AMP together!

_________________
Brian
VP, AMP
#51 Vantage Motorsports

Both my son's are track kids, since before they could walk. They hung around with the Wright brothers when they were a little bit older . Well Mark will be 45 this year and he still hangs around the track with me. Now it's my oldest grandsons turn, if I can get him away from his mother . Time to get him to Kartbahm. This kid has Asbergers Syndome (form of autism) so trying to find his place in the world.
Maybe we will get him into a Miata but preferably the Cortina someday. The kids are the future of grassroots Motorsport.
Gerald Elliott
Elliott Racing

Talk of kids and future racing makes this race directors heart feel good , but we are getting off topic . The tire thing seems to be a bit of sticking point , maybe for this year it be could run what you have with an aim towards a spec tire for 2018. If the tire was sorted now for 2018, people could buy new with that in mind.

_________________
James
PAST RACE DIRECTOR
GT5/15
2RHRACING

I think that's where we are at: use up the tires we have, but any new tires would be the "spec" tire for the remainder of 2017 and for 2018. We just don't have a spec tire selected at the moment.

Speaking of tires I have confirmed with Toyo that the if drivers are registered with the Toyo racing program then they will be eligible for a 40% discount (off the list price) on Toyo R888R when they are available in the Spring of 2017. However, unless we make a commitment right now they will not guarantee that they will have enough stock for the entire 2017 season. I would have to let them know by tomorrow (Friday) how many tires we are expecting to use and commit that the R888R would be the tire for the series.

Why would you commit anything to Toyo if Toyo are not committing anything back to us?
There is a reason why SCCA switched to Hoosier, made in America, never a shortage, no pre 8 months before the season starts commitment required.

_________________
Brian
VP, AMP
#51 Vantage Motorsports

They would be committing to have the number of tires we need in stock and to supply them at 40% off list. We wouldn't be committing to buying a certain number of tires, just that when we do buy tires we buy a certain size/model from them (though ideally we'd be somewhat close in our estimate). Unlike a bulk order we do not have to buy the tires up front, we just buy them as needed.

So we get a deal on tires and have a supply in stock locally. Toyo gets to sell a few more tires.

Based on feedback so far, we will not be asking Toyo Canada to include tires for the SM series in their 2017 order. This does not mean we can't select a Toyo tire as the series tire, or that the 40% discount wouldn't apply if we buy R888R from Scotia Tire, just that there is no guarantee that they will have them available.

Still looking at options for a spec tire. If you have any suggestions would like to hear them. The R888R was released in the UK in Jan 2016 so there are reviews available if anyone wants to see what it can offer (seems to be better all around than the R888, including dry and wet grip from what I've read).

I've just realized that this isn't just a bunch of people kicking around ideas, it's a managed discussion trying to steer potential participants towards a predetermined conclusion. I don't know who the 'we' is that Ken keeps referring to, but it doesn't include me.

So I'm out of the discussion. I wish the folks who are driving this well, and maybe I'll even still participate if they set it up well and make it worth my while. But nobody from here on out should imagine I am in any way a core supporter. Good luck with your plans.

At this point no one, including me, has committed to the series as nothing has been set. Frankly it would be silly to commit to something without knowing what you are signing up for.

The "we" are people that are potentially interested in participating in a miata series in this region (so Mitch you are still one of "us" ). That includes current car owners, drivers, and potential owners and drivers. ARMS at this point is sitting back to see what "we" can come up with. There are no predetermined conclusions that I'm aware of. What I've been trying to do is to poll people that might be interested in the series to see what they want the series to look like in a very open way. Any direction that has been taken has come form people that have shown interest in participating in the series, and that direction could change depending on how the discussion goes. The rules are still open for discussion and that includes race format and tires. There are no sponsors lined up at this point either and there won't be unless we can form a series, but in order to do that we need to come up with rules/format that enough of "us' can live with and then get people to commit to the series. Since we have a ways to go before that happens I'd be surprised if sponsors happen for 2017.

Asking to commit to a tire spec at this point was premature in hindsight, but there was a deadline from a potential manufacturer coming up and didn't want to miss an opportunity.

As always if someone else wants to get the series going I'm more than willing let them organize it. In the end I just want to be another driver in the series.

Looking forward to more discussion, and hope will see you at the AGM.

As race director all I have tried to do here provide info and tell you what ARMS (who when you think about is "WE" for everyone from the marshals to racers and everyone in between) is in a position to provide and point out potential trouble spots I think I see coming.

It has been nice to be involved in discussion that has yielded good ideas and not slid into a general batch of bickering or mud slinging. Let`s all try to keep up the communication!

_________________
James
PAST RACE DIRECTOR
GT5/15
2RHRACING

I'd still be interested in suggestions on tires. I'm surprised no one on this forum has an opinion or experience with different tires....

I'll start: Other than the R888 and Hoosier SM7 the only other tires I've raced on are the Falken 615K and Dunlop Star Specs (both were 200 TW when we used them in 2013-2014). The 615Ks were good in the dry (for a non R comp) but only so-so in the wet. In the dry they could overheat if pushed too hard, but would come back if let them cool off. No idea on heat cycles as we were doing 8 hour races, but we did get 16 hours of racing out of a new set.

The start specs we only ran in the dry and were as good as the Falkens but are reportedly an excellent tire in the wet. Based on the stints we did at Calabogie a set would last 14-16 hours. Again no idea on heat cycles. Don't remember what we paid from them but they couldn't have been overly expensive or we wouldn't have used them for chumpcar.

What I've heard about the Hoosier SM7 is that they don't have as much grip as the SM6, but they last longer. Though they reportedly heat cycle out (the top SM SCAA teams would sell them off before they wore out). They seemed to like bigger slip angles than the R888 at AMP. Wouldn't expect them to be any good in the wet since they have almost zero tread. Not sure how long they last (Mitch and I did 8 x 15 minutes at LRP plus 1 day at AMP on a single set and there was still some left in them). They weren't available in Canada last year, and I've been told Hoosier will only supply them to "official series" (even in the US we couldn't buy them anywhere but at the track).

I know some have used Nittos at AMP, other hoosiers,... let us know what you think of them.

I like the Nitto NT01, a lot. Its a fun tire, likes loads of slip angle, its super stable, and is fast from lap 1, cold.
Can run it to the cords with no drop off in laptime either. I have hauled 2 year old tires out from the trailer, thrown them on and gone as fast as a new scrubbed set.

Hoosiers are nice, I find the R7 a bit better than the R6, can handle a bit more slip angle, but in general they don't wear well at a track like AMP. At a smooth track they heat cycle out long before they look worn.

Hankooks are similar to the Hoosier, I found they needed quite a bit of setup change to make work well, but were quick enough when new.

Our e30 is a lot more fun on the Nitto than a "fast" tire, even if its not quite as quick, you can hustle he car like crazy, be super agressive, not be scared to death to have a lockup and ruin a tire instantly.

I have only found the difference to be around .5 of a second, but if you are a driver that likes a "hooked up" car, the difference will be a lot more, as the Nitto driven neatly, like a slick or Hoosier, will be slow.

_________________
Paul

Thanks Paul. Exactly the type of info I was looking for. Would it be fair to say the NT01 is good in the wet? Google seems to suggest they are ok as long as there is still a reasonable amount of tread on them.

I wonder if it's worth just saying that the tires must be 100 TW or more in a 205/50/15 size for 2017? That would allow people to use any R888, NT01, RA1, etc. that are kicking around, (there is probably not a lot of difference between them when new (less than a second?) and age will probably be as much a factor) and if someone wants to buy new tires they are free try the new R888r, RE71R, or whatever it is they can find, but keep people from going to pricey rubber. And if one of the tires is noticeably faster/cheaper to run then that likely will be the one we'll all end up using anyway by the time the season is done, and will make locking in a tire for 2018 easier.

If anyone else would like to give their thoughts on tires please fire away.

There is absolutely zero reasoning to run a "fast" tire at AMP, they get shredded.

The NT01 is ok in the wet, unless everyone else is on a Hoosier H20, then it sucks.

_________________
Paul

Thanks again Paul.

If we were thinking of getting a little more wear then Chumpcar wisdom gives the following list (Note these are all 180 TW or greater , not R comps. I added current 1010tires price per tire, note the R888 lists for $216, NT01 for $200, R1R $178, NT05 $140)) :

Dry Grip/fastest wearing first:
Bridgestone Potenza RE71-R ($151)
BFG Rival S
Hankook Ventus RS3-V2
BFG Rival
Dunlop Direzza Z2 Star Spec ($230)
Maxxis Victra VR-1
Kumho Ecsta V720
Falken Azenis RT615K ($180)

In the wet the RE71R is the favorite, followed by the star spec Z2, then VR-1. Rivals are reportedly better than the Hankooks in light rain, both suck in heavy rain and standing water. No idea on heat cycles because chumps tend to wear through a set of tires in a weekend (14-16 hours), though in the case of the RE71R likely 2 sets.

After rolling this around a bunch in my head maybe the tire answer is for now at least is run what the size SM is suppose to be that is DOT rated minimum 100 tread wear in what ever brand you like. Odds are it will work its way to one tire anyway same as Improved Touring did here years ago , we all ended up on RA1`s because it was the fastest tire for the money at the time.

_________________
James
PAST RACE DIRECTOR
GT5/15
2RHRACING

^That would work for me.

Very sensible suggestion James. My vote doesn't count for much, but I think that is a good way to go.

I didn't get to say it earlier on, but I'm not opposed to talking about or running a spec tire if that's what it takes to get some interest going in Spec Miata again. I'm just not keen to lock in to any particular single supplier unless they make it worth my while. The previous deal with Toyo/Scotia was fine, but the actual out-the-door price of the tires wasn't much different than you could get elsewhere. They made the 'exclusive purchase' agreement worthwhile by kicking some money into the year-end prize fund though. Just signing up to buy tires exclusively from them again without the prize money doesn't make sense to me.

Unfortunately we have a chicken-egg thing when it comes to talking to sponsors and suppliers. It's hard to generate interest from them when the best I can say is we have 2.5 cars waiting to see what's going to happen next season. On the other hand it's hard to generate interest from owners/drivers without sponsors in place.

When SM started they had 4 cars committed and they were actively seeking more. The drivers association was a good way to go about it as then it would be possible to approach sponsors and say "We have X number of members in the SMCDA." which is a lot better than "There are a few drivers talking about it on the forum". While I'm not opposed to creating a drivers association I'm hoping that if we can get a few cars out next year and we have standings and results posted for SM we can use those to show that the series is active and growing again. Of course if we can get commitment from SM drivers and owners before next season starts then that means I can approach potential sponsors before the season starts.

Hopefully we can settle a few things during the AGM weekend, such as what the rules will look like, and then we can start asking who will be there next season.

Speaking of rules, is the general consensus that we would stick to SCCA SM rules with the exception of tires (as per James' suggestion above)? I'd like to see a rule added that cars may be required to carry data loggers during events (an easy and cheap way to tell why one car/driver is faster than another). Anything other additions/exceptions? I can take a stab at drafting rules before the AGM.

Ken, don't take this the wrong way, but I didn't ask you to start organizing tire deals or sponsorship on my behalf. You're doing that on your own dime here, and I have every right to pick and choose if I want to go along.

I personally think it would be a good thing to leave money and sponsorship out of this until there are enough people participating again to call it a real series. And then I'd like it to be a group decision as to just what kind of deals we might try to do and how we set it up. I've had it with all of this cloak and dagger stuff. I just wanna go racing with a minimum of hassles.